Curse

Mordiego · May 20, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

It's not about ppl not knowing the rules of an elite area, not knowing the pop-ups spots, basic aggro management rules... not even about not having elementary knowledge about the skills and these skills' influence on these ppl but it's about their disrespect and selfishness!
Wammo or ursan-mentality ppl never listen to what U say, when U point them (even in the most gentle and kind way) what is bad and what is good for the team... they just don't care... don't give a damn. Coz they lack respect and responisbility...
Another release therapy thread?...

GW causes frustration!! we have to learn to live with it. No other option. No matter how much whining we will do!

WTB single player GW

upier · May 20, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

The point is:
some people lack any kind of manners.

Seriously - I was looking for a non-ursan team for FoW the other day and my selling line was "LFG 4/8 - FoW - NM- Non-Ursan - We're desperate so we'll accept anyone! :P Add yourself!" and I was yelled at by some dude that didn't like the fact that I would accept just anyone in MY party, because:
1. it's MY party.
2. it's Fow - and after almost 3 years I know it's kinda hard to mess up there.
3. I just wanted some fun and I didn't care how far we got. FoW is pretty much the only place I use human parties these days - so success is always a secondary issue when I do that!
4. IT'S MY BLOODY PARTY!

I don't care what triggers your yelling-extravaganza - take it somewhere else!

Alex the Great · May 20, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

there are no bad players in guild wars.
Just stupid people.
anyone can beat 95% of the game by following the instructions of someone that has a clue, and i try to drum this into the heads of my party everytime I pug.

let me tell you all a little story.

I was taking my ele through proph the other day, and i decided to pug the mission "ring of fire" which i had already done on my other characters. We had a ranger in my party with a terrible poisen arrow build and generic 1k armour, but he was willing to follow directions and played just fine (so i had no problem with him).

The we had another guy in the party who was a Sin with a R10 ursan blessing, oby sword, vabbian armour, and a dread mask. He incorectly aggroed, didn't focus on the ether seal target, and was just doing his own thing. Most off all, he didnt listen to directions, respond, or ask questions.

Which person would i rather complete the whole game with? guess.

TheSneakyBastage · May 20, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

4. The person who lacks experience, knows that they lack experience, and welcomes advice. This person should never be treated with "stooooopid noob" name-calling and other such crap and should be given any advice you've got that would be helpful to their task at hand.

In my experience, GW on the PvE side has all 4 kinds of bad players, and the good players usually distinguish between them and treat them accordingly. PvP tends to be filled almost exclusively with type 2 bad players, and a very few good players who treat all bad players very poorly. That's one of the reasons that I predominantly play PvE when I play GW.

Agree. I fall into category number 4, and what's irritating is what you said about the people in PvP who treat all bad players poorly. I play AB when i do PvP at all, otherwise PvE. I absolutely can't stand it when I do something wrong and I get pm's or chat of some sort saying "omfg you noob don't do x" or something along those lines. I then quit gw and go play something else. I learned to play Day of Defeat from some of the best players in the game and thoroughly enjoy it, and pass along my own tips to new players that ask for advice. I dont rageflame players on my team because they took a bad position, threw a bad nade, etc. It happens all the time, but it's casual, so get used to it. I agree that people need to relax and I wish there were more people who would give advice in a constructive manner so I (and other #4 players) could become more and more skilled and an asset to any team. Srsly.

RiKio · May 20, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Its called elitism.

Chushingura · May 20, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

2. The person who is bad, but thinks they're good. Actually, they usually think that they are better than "good," better than "great" even -- they usually think that they are God's gift to GW. These people are a problem. No amount of patient, clear-headed explanation will help them to improve, because they do not recognize that they suck. Calling them some variant on "idiotic noob" may make you feel better after they ruin your quest/mission/PvP match, but it probably won't have much impact on them, because they are thinking the same thing of you. The best thing you can do is avoid partying with these people in the first place. You can usually identify them by their LFG spam that includes terms like "pro," "exp," "R10 Ursan only," and, of course, "no noobs."

I place myself as the following:

2. The person who is good, and knows he is good. Actually, I am better than "good," better than "great" even -- I am God's gift to FoW. Calling me some variant on "idiotic noob" will lead me to ruin your FoW run when I join as a desperately needed Bonder Monk, only to leave when we zone, because I am evil and intent on getting payback for your idiocy in thinking Searing Flames scatters mobs. The best thing you can do is know your place in GW society when it comes to FoW.

Dallcingi · May 20, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Hey some people deserve it, like those nubs in AB that think they know what they are doing but end up failing... if you AB with pugs u know what im talking about. I mean if its complete noob its no problem, but noob with attitude is big no no!

Danax · May 20, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Although bad players should be expected to have a level of common sense. By the time a person plays an alliance battle, they should have the level of common and general knowledge not to use flare on a ranger. You should be able to realize you dont have enough energy to spam it, and if you read expertise, you should be able to realize it does not say spells. This lack of common sense annoys people, because it brings the effectiveness of the team down, making the game less fun for some.

shru · May 20, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danax

Although bad players should be expected to have a level of common sense. By the time a person plays an alliance battle, they should have the level of common and general knowledge not to use flare on a ranger. You should be able to realize you dont have enough energy to spam it, and if you read expertise, you should be able to realize it does not say spells. This lack of common sense annoys people, because it brings the effectiveness of the team down, making the game less fun for some.

All it takes to get into AB nowadays is rolling your first PvP char into GToB and a quick whisp to the guild recruiter spamming AD1.
I'm not realy sure why you'd have high expectations of anyone there yet, it's pretty much the same as RA, except that atm, you can choose to have control over your party's builds. Just be sure to ask them to ping it for you, then weed out what ever you think is going to cause your game to be "less fun".

I Can Cure Cancer · May 20, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

I don't help newbs learn simply because it frustrates me having to teach them. One time I was helping this guy on the Nahpui Quarter mission and he was leading the party. I told him to get henchies but he insists on doing it duo because it gets him experience. I argue with him for ten minutes and I demand that he gets henchies or to let me lead the party but he doesn't so after five minutes I tell him I gtg and I set my status to offline and leave his group. It's impossible to help someone who doesn't WANT to learn.

around · May 20, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiKio

Its called elitism.

I love this word. Don't like something? It's elitist!

HA'ers not letting you into their group because they want to win? OMG ELITISM
People telling you that soul reaping is still overpowered? OMG ELITISM
Nasty PvP'ers calling you names? OMG ELITISM

It's like communism, but even more insidious.

Fril Estelin · May 20, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

While I agree with most of this, I'll have to remind you that this is the internet, and anonymity gives people what they think is the "right" to act stupid and say what ever they want.

You're right, but this is actually an argument that you can turn upside down: anonymity is also perfect for all those generous and kindful people that want not to be noticed ... until of course someone has to stand up for this invisible mass of people. Reading GWG can give you a very biaised vision of the GW population (all people cheat, use Ursan, play egocentrically, etc.) which is, of course, not true. Kudos to the OP for this call to arms, spread some good thoughts and gentle behaviour around you and it'll flourish so as to make the gameplay better. Or simply continue what you were doing before.

This thread is not about the "bad" in "bad player" but making players "good". Set the example by being the example. With GW2 on the horizon and AoC which just started, apparently very toughly from the GWG thread, it's one thought to keep in mind. Don't always look for the cause outside you, but inside you.

Sypherious · May 20, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

There's also a 5th type of bad player.

The one who sucks, realizes they suck, don't take any advice, and don't talk to anyone. I run into these types of people alot.

Ex. I go into RA and there is a type 5 bad player on your team. You ask them if they want help, they don't type anything. These types of players will simply not type at all or respond to anyone. It's as if they have the chat box turned off. You're talking to them "Hey, want to some help" or "You there?". I am always willingful to help new players, but when someone just sucks, and doesnt answer you....ugh I honestly hate them.

Antheus · May 20, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder

I played Dark Ages of Camelot for quite awhile and when you were bested or killed an opponent, the majority of the time you were saluted or bowed to. You treated your opponent like a worthy advesary whether or not they deserved it. Not all players are as good as you, and you're not as good as some other players. But if everyone treated everyone else with respect then it was a better playing experience.

There was consequence. Act like a jerk on persistent servers, and you'll quickly find yourself playing alone, with nobody to trade with you, nobody to group with you for that 10 person instance, nobody to take you into guild to protect you from ganking, etc...

Quote:

I fail to see why some players think that trash talk and rude emotes equates to being grown up and mature. I agree a little banter between opponents is fine but most of the time it is just plain outright name calling and cussing. Just a bunch of little kids thinking that's the way adults act.

Because there's no consequences. People aren't nice to each other because it would be their nature.

People are nice if they have something to gain, or they depend on someone in some way. And for the corner cases and baselines, there's always the law, the police and the army.

In GW, there's no law, no consequences, no inter-dependency and on top of it, there's full anonymity.

Even more, such complete social isolation gives no incentive to improve oneself. One can misbehave as much as they want, but with so many alts and instances, one will never be punished.

One very simple reason why people don't act like idiots in real life in this way is because they would get punched in the face. Of course, the biggest idiots do act like that, because they know if they do get punched in the face, they can sue the attacker.

Remove the consequence and you get hell on Earth.

Age · May 20, 2008, 09:29 PM // 21:29

You can't do anything about the bad players in the game as they are just there and get bad leadership by their leader.They don't bother reading up on boards and if so they would only read the farming forum.There is no way to change this and it way to late at this stage.

englitdaudelin · May 20, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

bored today?
While I agree with most of this, I'll have to remind you that this is the internet, and anonymity gives people what they think is the "right" to act stupid and say what ever they want.
There's very little we can do about this as we can't outright punish those who do it, so just try to show them as little of your attention as you can. (Of course they're doing it to get a rise or offend you, because you apparently offended them in "being too noob", so it's obviously what you deserve)

Oh Jeez Amen. Anonynmity's wonderful, until it allows people in your chat window to act like clowns and say the kinds of things that most people wouldn't say face-to-face.
I think live speech is actually a blessing in some cases--things like teamspeak and vent might actually push a person to develop live, interactive people skills, and offer real-time advice, not throwaway lines like "noob." In general, in fact, I'm not a fan of throwaway lines.

I may be bad (or rather, poorly skill-barred for a given area)...but after two years of playing, I at least have the skills to play with, if you want to kindly explain what I need...and perhaps more usefully...why I need it.

And helping people just ... is good for the game, usually. They take that help and hopefully send it along to someone else...and someone else...and someone else.

It would be nice if kindness was as viral as rudeness and low-grade humor.

Esan · May 20, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Still think this board is not run by trolls, Ryker?

StormDragonZ · May 20, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Multiple kinds of bad:

a) Lack of skills bad... that's understandable... if they're new...
b) No sense of attention bad... when [skill]Barrage[/skill] meets [skill]Read the Wind[/skill]
c) Copycat bad... when someone thinks using a build just like most enemies use will generate perfection...

Plenty of others... but the ultimate of extreme bad:

People who demand easier ways to get things done: The Deadbeat Bad.

Commander Ryker · May 20, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Still think this board is not run by trolls, Ryker?

Yes I do and the reason I know this is all that the troll posts are gone and we still have a good discussion going.

Fug the Unwashed · May 21, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

"Bad" players come in 4 varieties:

1. The person who wants to play the game "their own way" ...
2. The person who is bad, but thinks they're good. ...
3. The person who you think is bad, but who is, in fact, better than you...
4. The person who lacks experience...

Missing #5 The Griefer! The person who simply plays poorly to enrage those who care about the game. The angrier you get because they make you miserable, the more power they think they have over you...they, therefor, continue to grief. Playing poorly on purpose.